Jordan Bateman's Langley2020.com

Wednesday, August 15, 2007

Light Rail: Tomorrow's Ticket to Ride

Our first Langley2020 conversation flows out of a dialogue that is already happening throughout the community: transit and rail.

There is no doubt that Langley is horribly underserved when it comes to transit service. This poor service trains generation after generation of Langley resident to drive everywhere--work, school, play, shopping. In these days of climate change, residents are rightfully demanding that TransLink provide Langley drivers with other options.

Running alongside this conversation is the ongoing discussion about the future of rail in our community.

The letters and material I've read thus far really don't address the major traffic concern in Langley: 200th Street. Whether it's that abysmal freeway interchange, the pending opening of the Golden Ears Bridge, or the traffic queue coming into Willowbrook, people are tired of 200th.

This leads me to my first Langley2020 paper: we need light rail transit along 200th St., from the Golden Ears Bridge to Willowbrook (and eventually, to Brookswood and Murrayville/Aldergrove/Abbotsford). And to get this rail line, we need to somehow convince Surrey and other communities to work with us on it. Click here to read the PDF, and let me know what you think in the comments below.

posted by Jordan Bateman at 7:44 AM

35 Comments:

  • You'll see I'm using my real name!

    That's a great and inovative idea. My only comment would be that the nature of development in connection with 200th so far is not as compatible as it might be with public transport.

    You'd either have to force future transit/pedestrian friendly development or get the light rail in asap so that compatible development is naturally attracted to it.

    By Anonymous Graham, At August 16, 2007 9:58 AM  

  • Great point, Graham. We still have quite a bit of 200th left to develop, so we can incorporate this in the remaining parts, before looking at how to get the rest to work.

    That's just another reason it's going to take a while to get this in place. Light rail can't be done overnight, but we need to facilitate it.

    Another possibility is a parallel corridor like 199 or 201.

    By Blogger Jordan Bateman, At August 16, 2007 10:05 AM  

  • If I wanted to get to the Township building from my Brookswood house, the bus ride would literally take one full hour. To drive takes abotu 10 minutes, especially with the new bridge.

    The 200th street corridor is completely underused by our current transit system. For that matter, so is 64th Ave.

    It is not like we don't have high traffic areas in that area, with Costco, Tonnship building, Walmart, Save On, London Drugs, Home Depot, Canadian tire...

    Why is bus service so poor in that area?

    By Blogger Keith Richmond, At August 16, 2007 10:51 AM  

  • Keith, I think it takes that long because everything is still focused on getting us to Surrey or Vancouver. My light rail plan would act as a transit spine in Langley, making the buses focus on getting people from Brookswood, Aldergrove, Murrayville, etc. to the urban corridor.

    It would also allow easy connection between many of the urban centres in the Lower Mainland, including Willowbrook, Maple Ridge, Pitt Meadows, PoCo, Coquitlam and Surrey Centre.

    By Blogger Jordan Bateman, At August 16, 2007 10:54 AM  

  • Jordan,

    One of the women in our office (on 92A just off 200th north of Colossus) tried for a year to use transit to get to and from her home (immediately off Grade Crescent about 100 m west of 200th). The distance was approximately 11 km straight down 200th. Her average time of commute was 90 minutes and if the afternoon bus left early (which one driver insisted on doing so he could take a longer break in town) her commute ended up being over 2 hours. Given such a pitiful service on such an important road you can understand why commuters choose not to use transit in Langley.

    Regarding your proposal, my concern would be where are you going to put the line? There is no obvious right-of-way without taking a lane from 200th.

    Your solution?

    By Anonymous Blair, At August 16, 2007 11:27 AM  

  • Blair, there will never be a right of way unless we forge ahead with one, especially on the underdeveloped north side.

    That being said, it may happen that one of the side streets in the future Willoughby network, like 199 or 201, would work better.

    Either way, Council needs to have the discussion so we can put space aside.

    Sustainability by Design offered two options--one a shared lane with traffic, and one a dedicated line. Dedicated is obviously preferable.

    The truth is, we may have to lose a lane in portions of 200th to do it. However, the hope would be that we would take some cars off the road and put their drivers on the train instead.

    No doubt, the dedicated right of way is the Interurban's big strength. However, I'm convinced this train needs to start by going north-south.

    By Blogger Jordan Bateman, At August 16, 2007 11:44 AM  

  • Great idea, but I would argue that Langley needs light rail now, not in 13 years.

    By Blogger Chris, At August 16, 2007 1:45 PM  

  • Chris, no argument there, but it does take time to get that much money together, get alignments in these different municipalities, get agreement from the region, lay the track, and buy the trains.

    Honestly, if the Minister decided on a light rail rout tomorrow, it would still take 5+ years to get off the ground.

    I'd rather have something in 2017 or 2018 (I believe that is a legitimate timeline) that works for the long term, than rush a bad alignment in 2012 or 2013 that won't be used or suitable long term.

    But yes, as soon as practically possible!

    By Blogger Jordan Bateman, At August 16, 2007 2:14 PM  

  • The Livable Region blog (http://www.livableregion.ca/blog/blogs/) made some wild, harsh, and frankly partisan comments about what I've written here, so I thought I should clarify:

    I should note that I wrote that document as a Langley Township Councillor, not as a member of GMBC.

    And, actually, I say the following:

    "With the Canada Line opening in 2009, and Evergreen’s first phase set for 2013 (pending funding), it seems to me that an opening date of 2018 for the Langley/Surrey line is both possible and practical. While still ten years away, this would be TransLink’s present rapid transit
    goal (buses) for Langley by more than a decade."

    Too bad the governments of the day didn't start ten years ago... we'd have light rail here now.

    Light rail is going to take time. You have to plan the routes, get the region, province and feds to agree and fund it, you need the municipalities to turn over right-of-ways, you need to build the stations, lay the rail, buy the trains. Honestly, there is no way to go faster. Even using an existing line would take 7-10 years, with a replacement heavy rail bridge having to be built, the Fort Langley tunnel (as outlined in VALTAC's vision) built, and other issues. Plus, the Interurban route doesn't serve enough urban area to make light rail viable at this point. We need to run north-south in Langley to get a start going, not east-west.

    Light rail is a long term solution and must be done right. That will take 7-10 years. But the sooner we get started, the better.

    I encourage everyone to visit Langley2020.com and actually click the link and read the document, as this blogger obivously did not.

    By Blogger Jordan Bateman, At August 16, 2007 3:08 PM  

  • Firt, I think what you have proposed could be a good start for what we have been waiting too long for. Good on you for getting the ball rolling Jordan.

    I am no expert either Jordan, but I would think that public transportation plans for the 200th Steet coridor should have been planned into the whole Willoughby expansion process. The route does look like a natural, but getting right-of-way will likely spoil some people's day in terms of intrusiveness.

    I wouldn't throw away the old interurban rail line too quickly.
    While it does not go into today's high density areas east of 200th street, the rail bed is there and the cost of other options is a great deal more. Park and Ride terminal areas are not all that terrible, and there will always be some people in need of them. Who wants a train at their front door anyway??.... is another way of looking at it.

    Once again, good start Jordan.

    By Anonymous Leggatt, At August 16, 2007 7:08 PM  

  • I think your proposal is interesting and a good way to really start having a discussion about transit issues outside of Vancouver. However, I have some concerns.

    First, as you already mentioned, the congestion exists now and we need more immediate solutions. Perhaps the quickest and cheapest way to address current problems would be through express buses that have a dedicated lane. If nothing else, I think this should be one of the options considered. Of course, express buses do not preclude also putting a light rail along the road in the same timeline you are talking about.

    Second, and more importantly, I do not see any real commitment from the current provincial government to public transit. In fact, I see the opposite. Transit projects are consistently given the back burner to road projects. For example, funding seems to have run out for the Evergreen line and the project may be shelved. If the Evergreen line won't be built, what does that mean for your proposal? Also, Translink as we know it has been dismantled. Can better transit be created without an indendent regional transportation authority?

    I believe that it would be possible to fund for both the Evergreen line and line that you are proposing, but only if the province's highway mega-project (i.e. the Gateway project) were to be reconsidered. Unless this happens, however, I remain skeptical that your proposal is possible.

    For what it's worth, I have the same concerns about the Interurban line, but the recent discussion on bringing it back is simply another great way to start thinking about real solutions to Metro Vancouver's transportation issues.

    By Blogger Andrew, At August 16, 2007 8:04 PM  

  • I have created a map of this route at:
    http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=104443166972154694208.000437d767a8c5489488e&z=11&om=1
    (not sure if this is the alignment intended - let me know).

    I will be adding other routes and proposals to the map as I have time.

    By Blogger Rob, At August 16, 2007 8:19 PM  

  • Andrew,

    There is also federal funding that would be necessary. While your Gateway ax is well-known, I think both are doable; after all transit megaprojects like Canada Line and Evergreen (which I believe will be funded at the end of the day) are on the books at the same time as Gateway. This leaves that envelope of transit funding available for other projects after the 2013 Evergreen (which needs to be done for my plan to work anyway).

    By Blogger Jordan Bateman, At August 16, 2007 10:09 PM  

  • Rob, the Surrey leg could also go up Fraser Hwy. I don't know enough about Surrey's growth patterns to determine which is better through that community.

    The VALTAC/Interurban extension east would be a second phase down the road.

    By Blogger Jordan Bateman, At August 16, 2007 10:10 PM  

  • The Langley/Valley leg could go down Fraser, or could go on the old Interurban line, although that meanders a bit.

    By Blogger Jordan Bateman, At August 16, 2007 10:11 PM  

  • From today's Langley Advance:
    Friday » August 17 » 2007

    Rail proposed for 200th Street
    A light rail line should serve Langley's urban core, connecting to Maple Ridge and Surrey, says Councillor Jordan Bateman.

    Matthew Claxton
    Langley Advance

    Friday, August 17, 2007

    The future of transit in Langley is light rail, one Langley Township councillor says. Now Jordan Bateman just has to convince his fellow local, regional, provincial and federal politicians that he's right.

    Bateman is taking his ideas to the public today in an attempt to spark a debate and start the planning for a light rail line that he hopes could link Langley to Maple Ridge and Surrey.

    "The key for me is to get cars off 200th Street," Bateman said.

    The main north-south artery through Langley's most densely populated area, 200th serves Walnut Grove, Willoughby, Willowbrook, the City and Brookswood.

    The route is already clogging up, Willoughby is developing fast, "and 200th Street is only going to get worse," he said.

    To cut down on the number of cars on the roads, he suggests a light rail line, running at the level of street traffic. The line could start in Maple Ridge or Pitt Meadows, cross the Golden Ears Bridge, travel south to Willowbrook and then head into Surrey, Bateman suggests.

    "Transit works if you have a spine," said Bateman. "Langley's transit spine is 200th Street."

    Spur lines or buses could travel east-west from the line's stations.

    A large majority of the population of Langley lives between 196th Street and 216th Street and uses 200th as their main route, said Bateman.

    The line Bateman wants wouldn't be elevated like SkyTrain, and would cost about one fifth what a SkyTrain extension does, he said.

    TransLink is working on a new long-term transit plan, but the existing plan doesn't even call for rapid bus service on 200th Street until 2031, and that's too long to wait, he said.

    Bateman hopes that pressure can be put on TransLink and the provincial government to fund more transit options on the south of the Fraser River.

    Richmond and Vancouver have the Canada Line, and the Evergreen Line is being completed in the Coquitlam area.

    Now it should be the turn of Langley, Surrey and Maple Ridge to have their transit concerns addressed, Bateman said.

    Township Mayor Kurt Alberts has spoken to Bateman about the plan, and he agrees that light rail could have a place in Langley's future.

    That option, along with rapid bus service, is under consideration by the TransLink review now, he said.

    However, there have to be riders in place first.

    "It really has to be based on a business case," said Alberts. Potential rail lines or bus routes need to show that people will use them to go to and from work, home and shopping, and that the riders will be able to cover the costs.

    Bateman wants to look to the future and start planning now, before everyone is moved in. With plans for Willoughby's future growth well documented, the Township can already say approximately how many more people will live along the corridor in a decade.

    Terry Lyster, a former Township planner and a member of the Valley Transportation Advisory Committee (VALTAC), said he sees both benefits to such a plan and some possible roadblocks.

    If a transit line crosses a river, it gains a boost in ridership, Lyster said. The SkyTrain line saw an increase in ridership of about 30 per cent when it hopped the Fraser River to Surrey.

    "There's no doubt in my mind that the Golden Ears Bridge should have been built with rail capacity on it in the first place," Lyster said.

    He also notes that around 30 per cent of people in the Lower Mainland are undersupplied with transportation. Whether they are too young or too old to drive, or simply can't afford a car, they need a way to get to school, work or the doctor's office.

    Increasing buses isn't always the answer. Buses can get stuck in traffic, or if a dedicated lane is built for them, they run into problems similar to rail projects anyway, Lyster said.

    On the other hand, a line down 200th Street could see a few problems.

    The stretch of road just north of the TransCanada Highway Interchange is hemmed in, and planners had problems finding enough right of ways to widen the roads in preparation for the Golden Ears Bridge opening, said Lyster. Adding a rail line could be tough.

    South of the TransCanada, there is more room to maneuver, Lyster said, but there could be a loss of greenspace.

    Ultimately, Bateman said he is looking forward to hearing what Langley resident have to say, pro or con about his idea.

    He has started a new website, www.langley2020.com, where he has unveiled his plan and is reading comments.

    Bateman notes that one concern to be addressed up front is the security and safety issue. People often worry that a new SkyTrain station will only bring crime and drug dealers into their neighbourhood, Bateman said. If a new light rail line is built, security can be addressed seriously before the trains ever start running.

    If Langley residents go for it, he'll hopefully take the plan to the political arena to build more support. Talking to B.C. transportation minister Kevin Falcon is high on his agenda.

    Falcon is familiar with local transit problems as he lives in Cloverdale, said Bateman.

    "This isn't going to come as a surprise to him," he said.

    The mayors of Surrey and Langley City are both on vacation in August and couldn't be reached for comments.

    By Blogger Jordan Bateman, At August 17, 2007 8:51 AM  

  • And an opinion piece from the Langley Advance:

    Transit concept requires spine
    Bob Groeneveld
    Langley Advance

    Friday, August 17, 2007

    Does the spine really exist to make reality out of Councillor Jordan Bateman's bold vision of a transit system connecting Langley with Maple Ridge and Surrey?

    It certainly would be refreshing to see the powers that be develop the backbone they need to convert the clogged artery that is 200th Street into a strong "transit spine" for a light rail people-mover that would cross the Fraser River on the new Golden Ears Bridge.

    Current plans are inadequate to the transit task that has been building - without relief - along with the major developments up and down 200th Street in Langley. Willoughby, in particular, continues to put greater and greater strain on the private-auto centred system that is poorly addressed in long-range plans.

    Current strategy seems to be to add a bus here and a bus there... a bandage approach that is aimed more at the appearance of saving taxpayers' dollars in the short term than at truly developing a system that works.

    Bateman is on the right track, if only because he has shown the gumption to look at other possibilities. His proposal will surely generate further discussions, and other exciting ideas will arise - or be resurrected, since other bold and exciting concepts have been brought forward before, and although often summarily discharged before, some deserve a new look in today's light.

    "Transit works if you have a spine," Bateman told the Langley Advance.

    Indeed, he may have been talking about 200th Street when he said that, but we're more concerned about the kind of spine that his fellow politicians and the bureaucrats need to grow in order to fix the transportation problems that are looming. Because the spineless approach that has prevailed in the past decades will break the Lower Mainland's economic back.

    By Blogger Jordan Bateman, At August 17, 2007 8:52 AM  

  • Jordan, I commented on LP but here it is again. You want light rail to run along 200th what happens to the cross streets like 66th the only road in and out of Langley Meadows to the east. We are going to have a casino and highrises to the south a possible dangerous goods route (196) to the west light rail to the east what can you do to the north to totally screw the people of Langley Meadows or should I say Langley Gettos.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At August 17, 2007 6:33 PM  

  • alp, light rail is driven by a driver, and if it shares a roadway, would obey traffic signals (although the signals could be timed to ensure maximum efficiency). A dedicated route along 202 may turn out to be preferable. North of Langley Meadows is already developed--those are the half million dollar plus houses and $300,000+ townhouses. Would light rail be any more a barricade to Meadows folks than the six lanes plus of a gridlocked 200th? I don't think so.

    By Blogger Jordan Bateman, At August 17, 2007 8:39 PM  

  • Hi Jordan,

    I'm not spamming, I'm just not sure which site to knock ideas around on about this. Were you thinking of something like the Skytrain? I think something a little lighter and more integrated with current traffic like the recent tram developments in the UK linked below would be more appropriate.

    http://www.thetram.net/

    http://www.supertram.com/

    By Anonymous Graham, At August 18, 2007 9:15 AM  

  • Oh I see. I just read your article again. I think it may be that we just use the term "light rail" in different ways. For PR purposes (and practicaly) I suspect trams or streetcars would be cheaper than "lightrail", which makes me think of Skytrain.

    The Township would have to commission research to determine the optimum size system (lighter trashorter trams or heavier longer trains) for Langley. Who'd have thought it: Langley...the San Francisco of the Canada :o)

    By Anonymous Graham, At August 18, 2007 9:23 AM  

  • Graham, definitely not SkyTrain. Check out http://translink.bc.ca/EvergreenLine/default.asp to see what TransLink's plan for light rail is.

    By Blogger Jordan Bateman, At August 18, 2007 9:45 AM  

  • A list of some of the other comments I've received, that haven't made it here yet...

    I think you're on to something here my boy. Too bad you weren't elected onto council some ten to twenty years ago. This might be already up and running by now. (Murrayvillian)

    Canada Line will be complete in 2009 and the Evergreen Line (Coquitlam, Port Moody) in 2013.

    The last skytrain station in these parts was built in Surrey in 1994 and the next one is slated for 2031.

    This is not a public transportation strategy, it's a disaster for Langley and our neighboring communities. Jordan will be a grandfather by 2031.

    This inaction by TransLink is condemning a generation of residents to their cars - offering no reasonable or practical alternative to the automobile. The Province Editorial page recently pointed out that bus service South of the Fraser was "woefully inadequate."

    None of this will change if we do not make decisions now and plan for a future that includes a number of public transit options for families and the commuting public.

    Jordan is taking the lead on one of our most important public policy challenges.

    It is a nice change to see an elected official leading and not following. We would all do well to get off our respective duffs and add our voices to Jordan's! (GS)

    Jordan, what about 208 for your light rail 202 doesn't flow to the north. A bus would do the same thing as light rail but would be a lot cheaper. What we need is for the sky train to travel up Fraser hwy thru to Abbotsford. (alp)

    By Anonymous Various writers, At August 18, 2007 9:49 AM  

  • It is great to have discussion on rail but realize that road construction does delay rail.

    The Evergreen Line looks like it is being delayed because of Gateway. Minister Falcon has publicly stated that he is concerned that the construction industry does not have the capacity to do large projects such as Gateway and the Evergreen Line at the same time. As well, the province looks like it has been asking the feds for money for South Fraser Perimeter Road instead of the Evergreen Line. The construction on the Evergreen Line was due to start now. All it was waiting on is funding from the province

    TransLink has been spending a lot money south of the Fraser. Unfortunately it has been on road projects such as the Golden Ears Bridge and Fraser Highway widening not transit. The Golden Ears Bridge was $200 million over budget. It looks like this $200 million came from the Evergreen Line. In addition, TransLink and MoT acknowledge that these road projects, Highway 1 expansion specifically will take ridership away from light rail and SkyTrain, causing revenue drops and thus more operating subsides.

    By Anonymous Richard, At August 18, 2007 4:39 PM  

  • A decision on Evergreen is expected this fall. I have no inside info on this but I suspect that an announcement will be made at the UBCM meetings in September when the Premier unveils his climate change attack plan.

    This isn't a thread to discuss the merits of Gateway, or lead into a long-winded fight on that--it's about light rail alignments in the region, and specifically, Langley. Let's not get off that subject.

    By Blogger Jordan Bateman, At August 18, 2007 6:59 PM  

  • Thanks for the post card.

    I think your proposal is great. I actually think it's what a lot of Langley people want but are afraid to actually suggest using the infamous 200th street corridor. It's like blasphemy to think of taking away a lane (or adding one) for dedicated transit, even though we desperately need it. I've been suggesting an express bus from Brookswood to 88th-ish for years - I have also been to Toronto and have been able to use their street car system which, if it wasn't seriously underfunded at the moment, works wonders. It's time to stop being envious of other cities' transit systems and build one of our own.

    Does your plan address the freight traffic that cuts 200th in two?...I think you mentioned something starting at Hwy. 10...don't forget south Langley residents, consider those condo buildings on 56th and 198th now. I'm rambling now.

    By Anonymous Brandon O. Yan, At August 19, 2007 12:07 AM  

  • Hi Brandon,

    Phase one would end on the north side of the freight line (i.e. it moves into Surrey at Willowbrook Mall). This means the City will have to bus to the line, but it would be a short trip, and I suspect the entire Langley bus grid would be redrawn to meet the line--and we could move the Langley Centre bus exchange to Willowbrook to tie in there. It would make people feel safer using the bus anyway, as Langley Centre has a very poor reputation.

    While not ideal, a spur line could be added as Brookswood/Fernridge develops down the road (or as ridership booms!).

    By Blogger Jordan Bateman, At August 19, 2007 7:20 AM  

  • Bateman on board with light rail push

    When the Golden Ears bridge is complete traffic on an already congested 200 Street will only get worse, says Councillor Jordan Bateman. He is calling for the implementation of light rail to ease traffic volumes.

    By Natasha Jones
    Times Reporter

    Aug 19 2007

    Despite the opening of the 204 Street overpass in Langley City to ease north-south traffic flow, 200 Street appears to be as busy as ever.

    It’s time to take a look at cleaner, faster and cheaper ways to move people along Langley’s most clogged artery, says Township Councillor Jordan Bateman.

    He calls 200 Street one of the biggest traffic issues in the community, given the loathing many motorists have for the 200 Street/Highway 1 interchange, and the general congestion on the major artery, much of it concentrated at the bottom of the Willoughby slope.

    As Willoughby develops and the Golden Ears Bridge creates a new traffic path over the Fraser River, 200 Street will bear even more pressure.

    The public push to resurrect the Interurban passenger railway has had a lukewarm reception among politicians, notably those on TransLink, says Bateman, and TransLink’s plans to ease traffic are too far in the future.

    These include service at 15 minute intervals 15 hours a day to link Langley City and Walnut Grove by 2011; a bus/HOV lane from the Port Mann bridge to 200 Street by 2021, bus rapid transit up and down 200 Street, and service every 15 minutes along Highway 1 from 200 Street to Abbotsford.

    These do not meet transit necessities in Langley now, Bateman says.

    He feels light rail service is the answer to easing Langley’s road congestion.

    “Rapid bus in 2031 is far too little, far too late for 200 Street,” he said.

    “By then, two working generations in Langley will have grown up tied to the car, and 200 Street itself will be congested for long periods of the day. We need rapid transit sooner than the 2031 date given to us by TransLink. And we need a light rail line, not rapid buses,” he said.

    He called 200 Street “Langley’s spine” — the centre of virtually all Langley’s commercial and residential growth, and precisely where light rail belongs.

    Light rail transit has many advantages, among them safety and reliability, Bateman says.

    Bateman thinks Langley should support the Evergreen light rail line extended from its current proposed terminus at Coquitlam Centre (at Lougheed Highway and Pinetree Way), along Lougheed through the urban areas of Port Coquitlam, Pitt Meadows and Maple Ridge.

    It’s only logical to extend it across the Golden Ears Bridge and south on 200 Street to Willowbrook Town Centre, he said.

    From there, it would bear west along Fraser Highway connecting Surrey communities before terminating at the King George SkyTrain station.

    Light rail is preferable to SkyTrain because it is cheaper to build and maintain, is quieter, and can be integrated onto street level, and require stations that are much smaller than those for SkyTrain.

    Bateman said that surveys show that safety is the chief concern of SkyTrain riders. Light rail trains carry drivers, and security measures such as surveillance cameras can be incorporated into the trains as they are built.

    As neighbouring Surrey takes a hard look at its next transit priority, Langley should do the same, he said.

    While the Township is engaged in re-working its Master Transportation Plan, Bateman wants to hear what residents think about light rail down the 200 Street corridor. A new website, www.Langley2020.com is devoted to the issue, and he also invites comments to jbateman@tol.bc.ca, or at 604-340-9385.

    By Anonymous Langley Times article, At August 19, 2007 5:18 PM  

  • Hi Jordan,
    I live in Aldergrove and use my car to get to and from Langley and elsewhere, if transit was better I would gladly take it. I think what you are proposing is a great idea, it sounds more economical as well as environmentally sound. I believe we should be looking at more environmentally-friendly ways for transportation not increasing car traffic,(hence more pollution) by adding more roads, overpasses, and bridges its not decreasing traffic but increasing it, there won't be less traffic but more congestion because of more cars on the roads.
    We don't need something in 2020, we need something NOW. I think light rail is a viable idea which should be considered strongly.

    By Blogger Heidi, At August 20, 2007 11:14 AM  

  • Had a bit of trouble getting on. I hope this is not a repeat....

    It might be posible to use two roughly parallel north/south streets as a loop system so that the 200th Steet route does not require widening of the roads extensively in either direstion. The cost savings could be huge, and all trackage could be at grade.

    By Anonymous leggatt, At August 20, 2007 6:17 PM  

  • TransLink cannot attract riders with poor service
    Surrey Now
    Published: Tuesday, August 28, 2007

    The Editor,

    Re: "Higher bus use required before trains head east," the Now, August 21.

    In response to the idea of a light rail system, I say it's about time! My husband and I have thought that for years now. My response to the idea of increased ridership on the buses is that the councillors have obviously never had to actually take them anywhere.

    I only just moved to Cloverdale, but having spent the last eight years in the Langley area, I can tell you that "atrocious" just barely describes the bus system there. Unless you are right in the downtown core, buses come every 20-30 minutes in the day and once an hour at night. And if the bus is full, sorry, another 30 minute wait and you are late for school or work.

    Not only that but the routes are often so convoluted that what should take 10 minutes by car can take more than an hour on the bus. It ends up being a choice between money and time. I lived 10 kilometres from work and when my car broke down, I looked up TransLink's site to "plan my trip." I was given two possible routes: one was an hour and 15 and one was an hour and a half - for what was normally a 12-minute commute!

    Because they only came every 30 minutes, I would have had to leave two hours earlier than I normally did. Sorry, leaving at 5:30 a.m. so I can be on time for an 8 a.m. job does not appeal to me. I ended up paying $20, one-way, to take a taxi.

    All that to say, if they want to increase public ridership, then they need to increase usability and feasibility for that public.

    Jessica Leslie
    Cloverdale

    By Anonymous Jessica Leslie, At August 29, 2007 7:56 AM  

  • A rising clamour for more rapid transit lines around the region is about to get TransLink’s full attention.

    The authority will consult the public and other stakeholders and experts later this fall as it starts to draw up a first-ever 30-year vision for Lower Mainland transportation.

    Where new light rail lines ought to go and anything else armchair transit planners want to float will be fair game for debate.

    “Every crazy idea everybody has, let’s put it on the table and have a look at it,” said TransLink vice-chair Marvin Hunt. “This is a golden opportunity for us to be able to look at all the different possibilities that are there and work on the ones that are the most viable today.”

    Already there have been growing calls for light rail lines running from the SkyTrain system out the Fraser Valley through Langley to Abbotsford.

    And one of the most ambitious ideas is to super-size the existing plan for the Evergreen Line, which is to run from Burnaby’s Lougheed SkyTrain station through Port Moody to Coquitlam Centre.

    Langley Coun. Jordan Bateman wants its scope expanded to run the light rail line further east, all the way to Maple Ridge, south across the new Golden Ears Bridge, down 200 Street to downtown Langley and back northwest on the Fraser Highway to the SkyTrain terminus at King George station in Surrey.

    The proposed billion-dollar Evergreen Line, however, has long been planned but is still struggling to get the final go-ahead and money needed to start building it as far as Coquitlam.

    A big bang approach to do much more, faster would require a massive injection of new money – far beyond what the reformed TransLink will even be permitted to raise through higher gas and property taxes.

    “If somebody has got big bucks, we can do a big bang,” Hunt said.

    He and other TransLink directors would love to see the province provide a major infusion for Lower Mainland transit in the name of fighting global warming this fall when it unveils details of its greenhouse gas reduction strategy.

    Half the province’s greenhouse gases are released in the Lower Mainland and 35% of those come from the vehicles on our roads.

    TransLink planners estimate present transit use rates must more than double, requiring expanded transit service at a cost running into the tens of billions of dollars, in order for Metro Vancouver to do its share to meet the provincial target of cutting emissions one third by 2020.

    But Hunt suspects any new money will initially target less-visible ways to cut greenhouse gases – perhaps help so more of the buses TransLink buys every year use electric hybrid or other climate-friendly technology.

    Even if the megabucks needed materialize, there would be many other competing priorities for possible new routes:

    • Vancouver council is steadily pushing for a rapid transit extension west along Broadway.

    • TransLink is already working with the province’s transportation ministry on an express bus route on Highway 1 between Langley and Burnaby that would come with the twinning of the Port Mann Bridge.

    • The Liveable Region Coalition wants an express bus service launched immediately across the Port Mann between north Surrey and Port Coquitlam.

    • Meanwhile, light rail fans south of the Fraser keep pushing for a new modern passenger rail service using the old Interurban rail corridor from northwest Surrey through Cloverdale, Langley and beyond.

    Port Moody Mayor Joe Trasolini said he supports eventual extension of the Evergreen Line east to Maple Ridge and south from there. But he doesn’t want to see a broader plan set the project back further.

    “Let’s make sure first we get the Evergreen Line funded and built,” he said.

    Hunt and TransLink officials also question how long it would take before light rail is justified on the 200 Street corridor.

    “There’s no ridership to make it viable,” he said.

    TransLink’s traditional approach has been to incrementally ramp up transit service – from community shuttles to full-sized buses to B-Line express buses – as the number of people served by a route grows.

    The next step up is a bus way, which gives frequent express buses a dedicated corridor separated from other traffic and much improved stations.

    Bus ways would eventually be upgraded to light rail.

    So far, TransLink has identified King George Highway and 104 Avenue in Surrey and the Fraser Highway to Langley as routes to get median bus ways between 2013 and 2021.

    The push to move other routes up the agenda draws caution.

    “Will there be a market for a lot of commuters going back and forth between Surrey and Maple Ridge,” asks TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie, referring to the 200 Street corridor.

    He says a key consideration in weighing routes to prioritize will be where homes and jobs will locate in the decades ahead.

    That will depend in part on Metro Vancouver’s redrawing of its regional growth strategy and any changes in the areas where it determines future growth should concentrate.

    The worst outcome, Hardie suggests, is if a state-of-the-art light rail line were built but the passengers don’t come.

    By Anonymous Tri City News, At August 30, 2007 9:45 PM  

  • There seems to be some differing opinions over what light rail consists of. For the 200th Street application I see light rail as simply an electric street car with the ability to take one or two additional units in tow during peak periods.

    By Anonymous Leggatt, At September 1, 2007 11:15 PM  

  • Hi Jordan,

    The last article posted by the Tricity news contains some of the fundamental mistakes I see Translink making in their service planning.

    First off, "every crazy idea"... So they will listen to the public, but the public is already crazy. So public consultation is more public presentation.

    Second, and this is the big one, "There’s no ridership to make it viable" The ridership will not be there until it is an easier, cheaper and more pleasant alternative to the car. If it takes an hour to bus from Brookswood to the Township hall, they will NEVER have the ridership. Ridership will come if they provide the type of service that makes it easy to take the bus, and road congestion, gas prices and lack of parking make it a pain to drive.

    Right now the ridership of transit in Langley is low, but the buses don't go where people want to go, take too long, and are often over full.

    I definitely agree that the city and the township can get ahead of the game now by setting aside corridors for transit, and it makes sense to put those corridors in proximity to where people will be, ie Walnut Grove, Willoughby, Brookswood, City, and where people are going. How does this it with the pending sustainability charter? I suspect quite well.

    There has been some talk about a Skytrain in the median of the freeway sometime around 2030. Are you thinking it is better to build the north south link on 200th now and hook it up to that corridor, or are you thinking of hooking up east west sooner? I can't tell how you want to link to Surrey and King George, as it is a long way from Langley City to King George Station.

    This might work really well with a re-lifed Interurban. What do you think of Light Rail from Maple Ridge to Highway 10, and The Interurban from Gloucester to Scott Road? The nice part of the Interurban, is it is much cheaper to use existing rail line, even if you need to accommodate freight traffic, than to put down new line in the roads. Example, Ottawa's O-train which cost roughly $4 million per kilometer for capital cost.

    Any idea on budget? It's tough to ask people would you support this without saying X dollars of local tax, X dollars from province and x dollars from feds, although we are not likely to get much money from the feds until we make Langley a swing riding (hint hint nudge nudge). I did some hunting and found that street level LRT seems to be the cheapest operating and maintenance costs of any transit system, and seems to be a lot cheaper installation than most other rail systems as well, unless the rail was existing.

    In any event, I will support anything that helps make Transit a more attractive option than the car, although I think my scooter is the still the best option for 8 months of the year.

    By Blogger Jake Gray, At December 13, 2007 1:28 PM  

  • Hi Jordan,

    The last article posted by the Tricity news contains some of the fundamental mistakes I see Translink making in their service planning.

    First off, "every crazy idea"... So they will listen to the public, but the public is already crazy. So public consultation is more public presentation.

    Second, and this is the big one, "There’s no ridership to make it viable" The ridership will not be there until it is an easier, cheaper and more pleasant alternative to the car. If it takes an hour to bus from Brookswood to the Township hall, they will NEVER have the ridership. Ridership will come if they provide the type of service that makes it easy to take the bus, and road congestion, gas prices and lack of parking make it a pain to drive.

    Right now the ridership of transit in Langley is low, but the buses don't go where people want to go, take too long, and are often over full.

    I definitely agree that the city and the township can get ahead of the game now by setting aside corridors for transit, and it makes sense to put those corridors in proximity to where people will be, ie Walnut Grove, Willoughby, Brookswood, City, and where people are going. How does this fit with the pending sustainability charter? I suspect quite well.

    There has been some talk about a Skytrain in the median of the freeway sometime around 2030. Are you thinking it is better to build the north south link on 200th now and hook it up to that corridor, or are you thinking of hooking up east west sooner? I can't tell how you want to link to Surrey and King George, as it is a long way from Langley City to King George Station.

    This might work really well with a re-lifed Interurban. What do you think of Light Rail from Maple Ridge to Highway 10, and The Interurban from Gloucester to Scott Road? The nice part of the Interurban, is it is much cheaper to use existing rail line, even if you need to accommodate freight traffic, than to put down new line in the roads. Example, Ottawa's O-train which cost roughly $4 million per kilometer for capital cost.

    Any idea on budget? It's tough to ask people would you support this without saying X dollars of local tax, X dollars from province and x dollars from feds, although we are not likely to get much money from the feds until we make Langley a swing riding (hint hint nudge nudge). I did some hunting and found that street level LRT seems to be the cheapest operating and maintenance costs of any transit system, and seems to be a lot cheaper installation than most other rail systems as well, unless the rail was existing.

    In any event, I will support anything that helps make Transit a more attractive option than the car, although I think my scooter is the still the best option for 8 months of the year.

    By Blogger Jake Gray, At December 13, 2007 1:30 PM  

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